Swati Ghoshal - My Biggest Challenge Has Been Dealing With the Inherent Uncertainty and Unpredictability of Life (Couple Counsellor/ CBT Practitioner)

Rather than resisting change or trying to control every aspect of my life, I've learned to roll with the tide and adapt to whatever comes my way

1. Tell us about your background and journey.

I began my career as an HR in the financial industry and then made a shift to the mental health space. While doing a post-diploma course from TISS, Mumbai, I realized this is where my passion lay. So, after working for 5 years, I left my corporate job and entered the mental health space. I love doing what I do, and every client, of mine had a story to tell and they all have left me inspired in one way or another.

I am currently practicing as a counseling psychologist (in Gurgaon/ Kolkata) and take up clients from different walks of life. I specialize in couple counseling and have previously worked as a consultant with the Department of Women and Child Development, Government of DELHI, and collaborated with organizations such as Mazdoor-Kisan Shakti Sangathan (MKSS), Alzheimer's and Related Disorders Society of India (ARDSI), etc.

I am an ardent believer in cognitive therapy and specialize in the same. I believe with a change in perception towards a situation, any goal can be achieved. Being non-judgemental of oneself and others can help a person find their true calling, and that is something that I strive for in all my sessions with my clients. My therapy is solution-focused, which has helped clients find new ways to overcome their roadblocks.

I have so far dealt with issues related to intrapersonal problems (self-esteem, procrastination, anger, indecision, negative thinking, etc.), interpersonal (conflict between siblings, co-workers, classmates, spouse-couple counseling, etc.), stress & anxiety, Academic issues (Time Management, Motivation, Note Making, and Effective Study Techniques)


2. In the movie Animal, Ranbir Kapoor portrays a role who suffers from Daddy issues. Can you explain it as A Psychologist? and How to overcome it?

Since I have not yet watched the movie, My review of Ranbir Kapoor’s character is based on the movie's trailer and reviews, which are available on public domains. Again, this is my opinion and not a diagnosis of any kind. From the looks of it, Anil Kapoor, as in the father had been emotionally abusive bordering towards neglect. Ranbir Kapoor seems to show symptoms of what is known as Anti-social Personality Disorder also known as (ASPD). As far as his Daddy issues or his ‘attachment problems’ are concerned, not everyone ends up being as violent. Sometimes for ASPD to manifest several other reasons can bring about a change in a human being. These can be passed on genetically or it can be environmental/situational.

Just to elaborate, on what attachment problems are I‘ll just explain that in brief. According to attachment theory, our early interactions with a primary caregiver—usually a parent—create our expectations of what love should be like. How responsive and readily available these caregivers were to meet our emotional and physical needs shaped our perception of ourselves and others.


3. In your role as a Couple Counsellor, what are some common challenges you observe, and how do you help couples navigate and overcome these challenges?

In my opinion, no two couples are the same and therefore, generalizing anything is a bit difficult. I can however speak about something that has become very common nowadays, mismatched expectations on both sides and aversion to changes after marriage. Now, these changes might bring about lifestyle changes or would require letting go of some of the comfort or control that the person has been used to before getting married. Another problem with having fixed expectations is that people become less accepting of their partner’s flaws.


Differences in how gender roles should be played out, often lead to clashes. This perspective on gender roles is often influenced by individuals’ family of origin. Therefore, my suggestion is that every couple must go through pre-marital counseling to understand their compatibility better.


4. Can you share a memorable experience or success story from your work as a psychotherapist, where you felt a significant positive impact on a client's life?


There are several cases, and each is unique in their way. One that came to my mind immediately was this one case. This case was interesting in the sense it depicts how powerful the mind is and how your unconscious mind works. So, this client had lost his father and had approached me for grief therapy. Over the few sessions, it was realized that the client had been suffering from bouts of coughs. He had visited many doctors, and all his results were negative meaning that nothing could explain the cough.


During one of the sessions, the client told me that his doctors had asked him to see a psychologist. On asking him why the client opens up and says that he fears that he would die of a heart attack much like his father. On probing the client further, he says that he has been looking up the symptoms of a heart attack on Google and he realized that he exhibits several of those symptoms. On being asked to talk about all the symptoms that he had been experiencing, which went on for 15 minutes. The client in those 15 minutes had not coughed a single time! He was so engrossed in giving me the details that he forgot that he needed to cough.


When I brought this to his notice, he smiled and started coughing, which led to him realizing that his unconscious acceptance of the belief that ‘I will die of a heart attack much like my father’ was making him sicker. My first advice to him was that he needs to stop looking for symptoms of diseases on the internet as he is priming himself psychologically to exhibit those symptoms. To understand what priming you can google the term and if it interests you more you may read ‘The Biology of Belief’ by Bruce Lipton


5. You've worked in both Mumbai and Bangalore in HR roles. How has your experience in different cities influenced your understanding of workplace dynamics and employee well-being?


To be honest, it’s not so much the city that you are based out of that impacts the workplace dynamics but it’s the overall culture of the organization that has an impact on how the dynamics play out. An organization that pushes target or profit-making as priorities will have employees, who are constantly competing. The way the human psyche works, in case of threat in this case - competition, you have employees, who working in the ‘fight or flight mode’. They will always be stressed or anxious about their target or even their jobs, which will lead to a lot of infighting. After all, resources are scarce, and you need to survive (a.k.a the Jungle Law)

Now an organization that encourages camaraderie amongst its employees. Their practices generally entail people being hired in batches. So, each batch is trained together as generally seen in most PSUs or government organizations such as the Armed Forces, IAS, etc. Here, the job is guaranteed and because you have people you know, gives you a sense of security. But yes, there are some drawbacks that these organizations suffer from too. I am delving much into that.


Another reason why I believe the city, you work in does not matter as much is because the labour laws across India are practically the same, with minor differences depending on the state, you are residing or working in.


Now speaking about Mumbai and Bangalore specifically, both are megacities that employ migrants, not just from other states within India but across the world. In that sense, there exists a multicultural perspective in both cities. Within an organization, you mainly see employees speaking in Hindi or English. Outside the organization dominant Marathi or Kanada does play a role but not so much within the organization when internal team meetings are being held.


6. What advice do you have for individuals considering a career in clinical psychology, especially themselves? maybe navigating the challenges of mental health themselves?

As a counseling psychologist, my only suggestion to anyone is to choose a career that you feel personally connected to. After all, as Mark Mason very wisely said, “Who you are is defined by what you’re willing to struggle for.” but he also says “If you find something to do that you value and you're good at it, but you don't get paid, that's a hobby, not a career. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with having hobbies. We all need something in our lives that we do for the pure and simple pleasure of doing it.”. Choose a challenge that you genuinely wish to take up. You may choose a career and be good at that and still feel unfulfilled.

Now answering the second part of your question, much like physical ailments, everyone has mental ailments at some point in their life or another. The problem is that we are comfortable going to doctors but not psychologists. Ironically a lot of our physical problems stem from our mental imbalances, particularly stress, and yet somehow often do not consult a psychologist. Unfortunately, this also includes psychologists themselves, irrespective of which branch of psychology they are practicing in. This however is not just an Indian phenomenon but a global one.

Now as an ethical practice, a counselling psychologist is required to undergo counselling before taking up clients themselves. Also, while practicing they must undergo supervision and continue their therapy. These ethical requirements are applied to any psychologist, be it, clinical. counseling, school, Industrial/ organization, or even a psychiatrist.

This is because we are all human beings, if a sad movie can temporarily affect your mood, so can constantly be listening to your client’s problems – this is known as secondary trauma. While we are trained to have an objective perspective all the time, it is not humanly possible all the time and this is when a supervisor and your therapist’s therapist help him/ her recover from secondary trauma and bring in a third-eye perspective when the therapist taking sessions.

7. How according to you can one manage stress?

As a therapist, I practice Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, also known as CBT. From a cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT) perspective, managing stress involves identifying and challenging negative thoughts and behaviors that contribute to stress, and replacing them with more balanced and adaptive ways of thinking and acting.

What this means is your perspective towards a situation is all that matters. No two people behave the same in any given situation.

Let's say a college student who is feeling overwhelmed by her coursework and responsibilities. She finds herself constantly worrying about meeting deadlines, getting good grades, and constantly concerned about what will people say if she fails as a result. On the other hand, her generally confident classmate may be less overwhelmed by academic pressure. She does not bother herself about what others would say and therefore can keep her calm under pressure.

Another thing that needs to be looked at is the idea that all kinds of stress are harmful. The answer is no! Eustress is a positive form of stress that can be beneficial for an individual's mental and physical well-being. Unlike distress, which is a negative form of stress that can have harmful effects on the body and mind, eustress is a type of stress that motivates and energizes individuals, helping them to perform better and achieve their goals.


8. What has been your biggest challenge, and how did you overcome that?

My biggest challenge has been dealing with the inherent uncertainty and unpredictability of life. However, I've learned to embrace the unknown and cultivate a mindset of resilience and flexibility. Rather than resisting change or trying to control every aspect of my life, I've learned to roll with the tide and adapt to whatever comes my way. I believe in taking perspective from others, which helps me in finding effective solutions to problems.

9. Looking ahead, what are your professional aspirations and goals in this industry, and how do you plan to achieve them?


My professional aspirations and goals in the mental health industry are to continue growing as a clinician, researcher, and educator while making significant contributions to the field through innovative and impactful work. I aspire to play a role in bridging the gap between mental health services and underserved populations, ensuring that everyone has equal access to quality care regardless of their background, location, or financial status.

I, also, aim to empower individuals and communities with the knowledge and resources necessary to maintain optimal mental health, recognize early warning signs of mental health issues, and provide appropriate support to those in need. Through my work, I hope to challenge the misconceptions surrounding mental health and foster a culture, where discussing and addressing mental health is met with the same level of importance and acceptance as physical health.



Bio-

Multi-faceted professional pursuing challenging assignments as a Counselling Psychologist. Experienced in Human Resources with a demonstrated history of working in the financial industry. Skilled in employee counseling, personnel management, and employee engagement, having a PGDM in Human resources From XISS, Ranchi, and in Counselling Psychology from Tata Institute of Social Sciences. and M.Sc in Counselling Psychology from the Indian Institute of Psychology and Research.


Interviewed and Edited by - Arunangshu Chatterjee